We'll keep this brief, since it benefits no one to rant, especially this time of year when we should be more focused on counting our blessings and giving to others in need. Nevertheless, we feel the need to say something. Being mutts ourselves, and the progeny of a diverse mix of immigrants, we can't be xenophobes without also being hypocrites. We make no bones about our outlook. We are thrilled to have anyone, from any culture purchase and enjoy our products. In the past few decades, Asia in general, and particularly China have developed a bad rap for ripping off products. But there are guilty parties on every side.
Anyone who knows us, knows how deep we are into what we do. We don't simply make products to make a dollar. We make stuff we want in our own shop, stuff that works sweetly, then make "extras" for all our fellow woodworking enthusiasts. That's our "business model" in one sentence. So when someone takes your idea and turns it into a strictly commercial enterprise, made solely for the purpose of making money, it leaves an extremely bad taste in our mouths. Those who say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery miss the point that flattery by definition is insincere praise used to further one's own interests.
But we promised to keep this brief.
To the people at the China-based Riverside Tree Woodworking Club and those at "T. Deer" you seem to have the skills and means, we encourage you to develop your own products and designs to add value and diversity to the woodworking world.
To our customers in China and Asia, you can purchase our products through our official Chinese dealer Harvey Works http://www.harveyworks.cn/
They even have a small image of a Crip croff (Crisscross rip off?) in the bottom right corner.
ReplyDeleteThis sort of thing irks me to no end, Jameel. Sorry you have to deal with this.
Funny, I'd rather spend the extra money to buy from a known company, and be absolutely certain of the quality, then purchase at a discount and risk the disappointment. That may put me in the minority, but I like things that work right the first time.
ReplyDeleteThat's a shame but not altogether surprising. Does the "T" in T. Deer stand for trump?
ReplyDeleteJust sent my Moxon Vise Hardware order to Benchcrafted. I opted for "American Made" in Iowa by the progeny of immigrants to America. As the second generation progeny of an immigrant to America who was processed in 1910 at Ellis Island, NY with $10 in his pocket, I am grinning! Best of luck, gentlemen! KAR
ReplyDeleteThanks!
DeleteHarvey does produce quality stuff. I have their tablesaw. Kudos on picking a quality manufacturer for your products.
ReplyDeleteHarvey is not the manufacturer but the mainland Chinese distributor and as such, it is their responsibility, ostensibly, to enforce the trademarks and IPRs of their branded suppliers, but this is China.
Deletehttp://remisquotable.blogspot.com/2017/06/the-sincerest-form-of-flattery-t-deer.html
"we encourage you to develop your own products and designs to add value"
ReplyDeleteYou do know you are speaking to a wall, right?
An alternate to this is do what John at Bridge City Tools does: find a good partner and have your products made in China and sold as non-American version, but in the same quality as the American one. You can't fight the ripoff kingdom in Asia, no one has or can.
As a side, Volvo is now Chinese owned and it will stop making gas vehicles. If other car manufacturers are still stuck with non-electric cars, after a decade or two the best and most affordable electric cars will be a Made in China item. 100% sure...unless the American car makers get on the bandwagon NOW.
Well, there's a person behind every knockoff product. Our comments were aimed at those real people, not entirely as a direct statement to them, but as much of an expression of our standards and outlook. We would say the same to someone knocking off our products in a garage across town. The wall analogy is understandable, but this all boils down to personal ethics. Ripping off someones design starts with a conscience decision by a person. They have the choice to take the high road or not.
DeleteI can only say if these had had the most basic sense of ethics, you would not have written this blog post. It is dog eat dog there as you can find Chinese rip-offs of Chinese products! No kidding.
DeleteOn their site, I also saw holdfasts, bench dogs, swing seats, etc. I can't read their language but a friend who translated part of it said they ship overseas at ridiculously low price like $3 or so. Don't know how they could do that.
Because this is China:
Deletehttps://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2017/11/05/how-the-usps-epacket-gives-postal-subsidies-to-chinese-e-commerce-merchants-to-ship-to-the-usa-cheap/#77a7bd4240ca
Speechless.
DeleteForbes article - Eye-opening! That is partly how we are killing ourselves and why many local businesses are stuck in a no-win situation.
DeleteYuck. I feel like I need to take a shower. For what it's worth, I appreciate the brand that you've built around your products. Some people may look at the price and have a hard time digesting it. They might think they can do it themselves - we are inherently DIY-types after all. Having looked into it (the cost of the large Acme threaded screw alone is cost prohibitive) and then having used BC products in person, I realized your products are a bargain. I'm not interested in cheap imitations. I'm sure the quality is not up to snuff and even if it were their theft of your effort in developing the product is despicable.
ReplyDeleteThank you sir. Very kind words we don't disagree with!
DeleteSorry Jameel. This is not surprising at all given the state of our world, but it is always disappointing. More power to you and the rest of the BC'd family for sticking to your values and honesty. All the very best, David
ReplyDeleteThanks David.
DeleteWait a minute.....You sound like you're suggesting that you invented "Moxon Vices" or "Leg Vices" or even the "Roubo" benches that you sell..When in fact all you did was reproduce something from an old wordworking book...
ReplyDeleteSo it's OK when you reproduce something, but when other's do...its a ripoff....and then to suggest that your motives as a business are not primarily financial.....that you're doing this to serve the community....Your audience is not that naive.
C'mon guys...Its OK to have a business that wants to profit and its simply competition when others bring items to the marketplace. There are lots of companies that sell similar products to yours. Part of being in business is dealing with competition.
Guys, I like your products and I wish you well, but I would rather you not tell me you're not in it for a profit and hear you complain about competition.
Maybe you should ask (or read) around. Our position and philosophy have been completely out in the open since the day we sold our first vise. Published in all forms of media, worldwide. If you can't recognize the difference between our products and the those of T. DEER, then I'm afraid we can't explain it to you.
ReplyDelete